I agree with you but you don't have to push off the ground without slipping as much as you have to push off the ground harder than the force pulling you. -Skylar Young
Interesting video...both horse and rider made compelling points. Obviously, the man is right because we have all seen horses pull carts. -Kevin Meglathery
For the tug of war question: People in a tug of war don't pull on the rope; they hold on to the rope and push off the ground. The ground pushes back with equal and opposite force. If the two people are equal mass, then the net force would be zero and neither one would move. If one has more mass than the other, then that person pushes on the ground harder, and the ground pushes back harder. This means that the net force is acting in the larger person's direction, resulting in their victory. -Kevin Meglathery
Is it possible for a human to ever actually PULL on something? It seems like all we can do is push in different directions. If you think about "pulling" on something, it is acutally a push towards you.
This idea is clearly supported and beautifully supported by the spectacular film, "Cat and the Horse Video" spectacularly choreographed by Mr. Leong Tze Kwang.
I agree. The strength of the person has nothing to do with who will win the game of tug of war. It is the mass of the person. If you have a really big person and a really small person, the bigger person will win because they have more mass. This is because you cannot pull harder than the person you are versing. This means that the force you are pulling with is always equal to the force your opponent is pulling with. What dictates who wins is the force each person is pushing onto the ground. The more mass one has the more they push onto the ground. The person who is pushing on the ground the most(the person with the most mass) will win the game of tug of war.
No matter the mass of the person, they are still pulling with the same amount of force, the determining factor in this problem is the mass of the people pulling, the more mass a person has the more friction they are causing against the ground which allows them to win easier. The more mass a person as the more friction it causes on the ground which makes the other person have less friction and less mass.
The technique of "stronger in back" seems completely illogical in that case. For the most part, the heaviest person should be the biggest threat. Where would they be positioned?
if both teams dug their heels into the ground and anchored themselves and one team had a tighter grip causing the friction to be less or their side, would they have the greater advantage?
Actually, the tighter grip would make more friction. In that scenario, if neither team could move their feet, then it would all come down to who lets go of the rope first. -Kevin Meglathery
I think what Kyle was trying to say was team 1 held the tighter grip, and therefore team 2's grip wasn't as strong. But your explanation still works perfectly.
I think that concrete would have a lot of friction. It's abrasive, meaning that you can get contact over a greater area, and it's solid, so there isn't any dirt to be sliding around. -Kevin Meglathery
The harder one pushes the ground, will cause the ground to push back even harder, giving you an advantage at tug o war. Strength is nothing in this game. If you don't apply too much force to the ground, the ground will not return it back to you, causing you to lose. The more force applied to the ground will result in a stronger return of power. -Jake Naumann
Jake, what do you mean strength has nothing to do with it. Doesn't strength determine how much force you apply to the ground or is it all mass? -Skylar Young
No, Skylar, stenghth as nothing to do with amount of force that is acting on the ground. The mass determines the amount of force and friction between the person and the ground. Techniqually, you do not have to be strong to win Tug O' War.
The video explained Newton's third law very well by showing an example of Tug O War in a real life situation. The horse did not think he could pull the cart but the man told him that becuase of his mass he would be ablt to push against the ground to pull the cart. This is the horse not pulling on the rop but pushing on the ground. This makes the horse's force bigger and allow him to pull the cart. -Skylar Young
In a game of tug of war, the winner is the person who pushes harder on the ground because the ground will push back with the same force. This means a net force is pushing in the favor of the person pushing harder on the ground (more mass) and they will ultimately win the game. The winner of tug of war is not the person who is stronger or the person who pulls harder, but the person who s pushing harder on the ground. -Katie Morgenstern
Another thing to consider is the length of the rope and the stamina of the people playing tug o war. What if someone with more mass was versing someone will a small mass with a long rope? What if the bigger person ran out of energy and there hands started to slip or they just let go and the smaller mass won? ~Makena
Like tug of war, by just pulling in the rope, the horse will not pull the cart because the cart will exert an equal force in the opposite direction. So, the horse needs to push off the ground. The more the horse uses the ground, the more the cart will accelerate. ~Sarah Oster
No matter the size of the two partners for the Tug o War the force is still the same. Each person is exerting the same force. The answer to who will win is the person who is using their feet to cause the most friction.
The force between the rope is simply tension. This makes sense because a rope can't move by itself. Since humans are connected to the ground, they are applying an entirely different force of friction which will decide the winner of the tug of war.
As long as the force you are applying to the ground is greater than the other person is applying to the ground, you will win. This is generally why people who are heavier will win tug of war. The heavier a person is, the most friction there is between them and the ground causing them to be able to apply greater force to the rope than the other person.
This video was very interesting. Technically, as John said earlier. We are never really pulling on anything. We are exerting a force on the ground and the ground is exerting an equal and opposite force. In tug of war, we do not pull on the rope but exert a force on the ground as it exerts a force opposite and equal. The forces will then cancel and they're will be no motion. But if someone has more mass, then you will exert more force on the ground. So the best way to win tug of war is picking bigger people with more mass.
its not by strength. you can never pull harder than the other person. you win by putting more force (FRICTION) on the ground than your opponent- so it's a whole lot easier if you have more mass.
Most of us know Newton's 3rd Law to be "every action has an equal and opposite reaction", but the two teams in a tug o war are not the said action/reaction. If you think of a tug of war, when the teams pull they lean back and push with their feet while pulling on the rope - the action is pushing on the ground, the reaction is the ground "pushing" back. Who wins is determined partly by which team has a greater mass, which team hangs on to the rope tighter, and which team keeps their footing better (friction).
I think that there are multiple action/reaction pairs in a tug of war. Each team pulling on the rope is one, but because they cancel out, we can ignore them. The only deciding factor is, as you said, between your feet and the ground. -Kevin Meglathery
Winning a tug o war does not depend on who can pull harder... whoever puts out a harder push on the ground will win... as one pushes on the ground, the ground pushes back on them with an equal and opposite force. it is not about pulling it is about pushing...
That video was so cute! It cleared up the whole tug o war winning situation for me. The key to winning is having more mass and therefore exerting more force onto the ground (friction?). -Robyn K.
I understand you need more mass to win. However, I believe if a person with a smaller mass has more leg and arm power they have a good chance of winning.
Arm power is irrelevant unless you are not strong enough to hold the rope because the equal and opposite force to the force you apply to the ground is what allows you to win.
Force to the ground and Mass can help win a tug o' war. Force would bring you away from the center, and since the rope's forces are equal, the opponent towards it. More mass can create more friction, resisting acceleration towards the center.
This was a quality video. Stronger people don't win because they can pull harder, they win because they have a greater mass. When pulling, your actually pushing on the ground, while the ground is giving you back an equal and opposite force. The more mass you have, the greater force you use on the ground, and therefore will have more to push back on while you pull.
Since when you play tug of war you aren't actually touching the rope, you must rely on your feet and the ground. Depending on your mass, the friction between your feet and the ground differs. The more mass you have, the easier it is to stay firmly on the ground and pull the other side towards you.
This video makes it clear to me that even though you think you are pulling something you are not but you are accelerating. No one can win by strength but by their amount of body mass.
The real way to win tug a war is not by pulling with brute strength, but having more mass and exerting forces to the ground. Like in the experiment we did, matter how hard you pull the forces are equal. By pushing the ground harder (aka having a greater mass) will make it likely for you to win.
In order to win a game of tug of war, the best thing for someone to do is to pick someone who has a larger mass onto your team, as explained in this video. People with larger mass exert more force upon the ground which is why the secret in winning a game up tug of war is not necessarily to pick the strongest people, but to pick the people with the most mass. -Matt Nazha
The more horizontal force you push off the ground without slipping, the more you can pull the rope.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you but you don't have to push off the ground without slipping as much as you have to push off the ground harder than the force pulling you.
Delete-Skylar Young
I agree with Skylar, as long as the force you are applying to the ground is greater than the other person is applying to the ground, you will win.
DeleteInteresting video...both horse and rider made compelling points. Obviously, the man is right because we have all seen horses pull carts.
ReplyDelete-Kevin Meglathery
For the tug of war question:
ReplyDeletePeople in a tug of war don't pull on the rope; they hold on to the rope and push off the ground. The ground pushes back with equal and opposite force. If the two people are equal mass, then the net force would be zero and neither one would move. If one has more mass than the other, then that person pushes on the ground harder, and the ground pushes back harder. This means that the net force is acting in the larger person's direction, resulting in their victory.
-Kevin Meglathery
Kevin, i agree you explained the third wall really well.
Delete-Skylar Young
Is it possible for a human to ever actually PULL on something? It seems like all we can do is push in different directions. If you think about "pulling" on something, it is acutally a push towards you.
DeleteKevin I agree with your statement entirely. Its interesting that no one is ever touching the rope and that the rope really isn't even touching itself
ReplyDeleteThis idea is clearly supported and beautifully supported by the spectacular film, "Cat and the Horse Video" spectacularly choreographed by Mr. Leong Tze Kwang.
DeleteI agree. The strength of the person has nothing to do with who will win the game of tug of war. It is the mass of the person. If you have a really big person and a really small person, the bigger person will win because they have more mass. This is because you cannot pull harder than the person you are versing. This means that the force you are pulling with is always equal to the force your opponent is pulling with. What dictates who wins is the force each person is pushing onto the ground. The more mass one has the more they push onto the ground. The person who is pushing on the ground the most(the person with the most mass) will win the game of tug of war.
ReplyDeleteNo matter the mass of the person, they are still pulling with the same amount of force, the determining factor in this problem is the mass of the people pulling, the more mass a person has the more friction they are causing against the ground which allows them to win easier. The more mass a person as the more friction it causes on the ground which makes the other person have less friction and less mass.
ReplyDeleteThe technique of "stronger in back" seems completely illogical in that case. For the most part, the heaviest person should be the biggest threat.
DeleteWhere would they be positioned?
i am going on a field trip tomorrow. what am i missing?
ReplyDeletedo you want the tug-o-war stuff in our notebook or can we post it to the blog?
ReplyDeleteMy class went over the tug o war stuff in class and are answering these questions online.
Delete-Skylar Young
if both teams dug their heels into the ground and anchored themselves and one team had a tighter grip causing the friction to be less or their side, would they have the greater advantage?
ReplyDeleteActually, the tighter grip would make more friction. In that scenario, if neither team could move their feet, then it would all come down to who lets go of the rope first.
Delete-Kevin Meglathery
I think what Kyle was trying to say was team 1 held the tighter grip, and therefore team 2's grip wasn't as strong. But your explanation still works perfectly.
Deletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIYn_URoM80
ReplyDeletemr.crane, which two surfaces would have the most drastic difference is the friction?
ReplyDeleteI think that concrete would have a lot of friction. It's abrasive, meaning that you can get contact over a greater area, and it's solid, so there isn't any dirt to be sliding around.
Delete-Kevin Meglathery
The harder one pushes the ground, will cause the ground to push back even harder, giving you an advantage at tug o war. Strength is nothing in this game. If you don't apply too much force to the ground, the ground will not return it back to you, causing you to lose. The more force applied to the ground will result in a stronger return of power.
ReplyDelete-Jake Naumann
Jake, what do you mean strength has nothing to do with it. Doesn't strength determine how much force you apply to the ground or is it all mass?
Delete-Skylar Young
No, Skylar, stenghth as nothing to do with amount of force that is acting on the ground. The mass determines the amount of force and friction between the person and the ground. Techniqually, you do not have to be strong to win Tug O' War.
DeleteUnless you can't hold the rope.
DeleteWhen you say the amount of force applied to the ground, is that force actually friction?
Delete-Robyn K.
The video explained Newton's third law very well by showing an example of Tug O War in a real life situation. The horse did not think he could pull the cart but the man told him that becuase of his mass he would be ablt to push against the ground to pull the cart. This is the horse not pulling on the rop but pushing on the ground. This makes the horse's force bigger and allow him to pull the cart.
ReplyDelete-Skylar Young
I don't think it would be bigger, it would just change the direction, so the cart could not cancel it all out.
DeleteIn a game of tug of war, the winner is the person who pushes harder on the ground because the ground will push back with the same force. This means a net force is pushing in the favor of the person pushing harder on the ground (more mass) and they will ultimately win the game. The winner of tug of war is not the person who is stronger or the person who pulls harder, but the person who s pushing harder on the ground.
ReplyDelete-Katie Morgenstern
Another thing to consider is the length of the rope and the stamina of the people playing tug o war. What if someone with more mass was versing someone will a small mass with a long rope? What if the bigger person ran out of energy and there hands started to slip or they just let go and the smaller mass won?
ReplyDelete~Makena
that was a strange video, but it was helpful. The horse and cart is similar to playing tug of war. To move you need to accelerate!
ReplyDelete~Molly Lawlor
Like tug of war, by just pulling in the rope, the horse will not pull the cart because the cart will exert an equal force in the opposite direction. So, the horse needs to push off the ground. The more the horse uses the ground, the more the cart will accelerate.
ReplyDelete~Sarah Oster
No matter the size of the two partners for the Tug o War the force is still the same. Each person is exerting the same force. The answer to who will win is the person who is using their feet to cause the most friction.
ReplyDeleteI don't think that each person is EXERTING the same force, but it ends up that the forces are equal.
DeleteThe force between the rope is simply tension. This makes sense because a rope can't move by itself. Since humans are connected to the ground, they are applying an entirely different force of friction which will decide the winner of the tug of war.
DeleteI found this video interesting and helpful. I can now see how to win a tug o war. I also now understand what you were talking about in class.
ReplyDeleteAs long as the force you are applying to the ground is greater than the other person is applying to the ground, you will win. This is generally why people who are heavier will win tug of war. The heavier a person is, the most friction there is between them and the ground causing them to be able to apply greater force to the rope than the other person.
ReplyDeleteThis video was very interesting. Technically, as John said earlier. We are never really pulling on anything. We are exerting a force on the ground and the ground is exerting an equal and opposite force. In tug of war, we do not pull on the rope but exert a force on the ground as it exerts a force opposite and equal. The forces will then cancel and they're will be no motion. But if someone has more mass, then you will exert more force on the ground. So the best way to win tug of war is picking bigger people with more mass.
ReplyDeleteI couldn't have said it better myself. That's all there is to it, and you explained it so simply.
DeleteI couldn`t have thought of a better way to say this... this was extremely simple and I`m sure almost anyone could understand it...
Deleteits not by strength. you can never pull harder than the other person. you win by putting more force (FRICTION) on the ground than your opponent- so it's a whole lot easier if you have more mass.
ReplyDelete~Gianna Briglia
Most of us know Newton's 3rd Law to be "every action has an equal and opposite reaction", but the two teams in a tug o war are not the said action/reaction. If you think of a tug of war, when the teams pull they lean back and push with their feet while pulling on the rope - the action is pushing on the ground, the reaction is the ground "pushing" back. Who wins is determined partly by which team has a greater mass, which team hangs on to the rope tighter, and which team keeps their footing better (friction).
ReplyDeleteI think that there are multiple action/reaction pairs in a tug of war. Each team pulling on the rope is one, but because they cancel out, we can ignore them. The only deciding factor is, as you said, between your feet and the ground.
Delete-Kevin Meglathery
Winning a tug o war does not depend on who can pull harder... whoever puts out a harder push on the ground will win... as one pushes on the ground, the ground pushes back on them with an equal and opposite force. it is not about pulling it is about pushing...
ReplyDeleteThat video was so cute! It cleared up the whole tug o war winning situation for me. The key to winning is having more mass and therefore exerting more force onto the ground (friction?).
ReplyDelete-Robyn K.
In that case, there would be more friction, Robyn, which would then make it harder to move/slide.
DeleteOne wins by having more mass, which gives them more force applied to the ground.
ReplyDeleteWell, if you have a larger mass then your opponent, and you don't push off, and you just pull, then chances are, the other side will win.
DeleteI understand you need more mass to win. However, I believe if a person with a smaller mass has more leg and arm power they have a good chance of winning.
ReplyDeleteArm power is irrelevant unless you are not strong enough to hold the rope because the equal and opposite force to the force you apply to the ground is what allows you to win.
DeleteForce to the ground and Mass can help win a tug o' war. Force would bring you away from the center, and since the rope's forces are equal, the opponent towards it. More mass can create more friction, resisting acceleration towards the center.
ReplyDelete-Ciaran Wagner-
This was a quality video. Stronger people don't win because they can pull harder, they win because they have a greater mass. When pulling, your actually pushing on the ground, while the ground is giving you back an equal and opposite force. The more mass you have, the greater force you use on the ground, and therefore will have more to push back on while you pull.
ReplyDeleteSince when you play tug of war you aren't actually touching the rope, you must rely on your feet and the ground. Depending on your mass, the friction between your feet and the ground differs. The more mass you have, the easier it is to stay firmly on the ground and pull the other side towards you.
ReplyDeleteThis video makes it clear to me that even though you think you are pulling something you are not but you are accelerating. No one can win by strength but by their amount of body mass.
ReplyDeleteThe real way to win tug a war is not by pulling with brute strength, but having more mass and exerting forces to the ground. Like in the experiment we did, matter how hard you pull the forces are equal. By pushing the ground harder (aka having a greater mass) will make it likely for you to win.
ReplyDelete--- A Legend (Taylor Nardone)
For number 12 since the truck is larger than the car it should through the car right? Toto
ReplyDeleteIf anyone is curious about why one object moves another object, you should definitely check out this link:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bTdMmNZm2M
In order to win a game of tug of war, the best thing for someone to do is to pick someone who has a larger mass onto your team, as explained in this video. People with larger mass exert more force upon the ground which is why the secret in winning a game up tug of war is not necessarily to pick the strongest people, but to pick the people with the most mass.
ReplyDelete-Matt Nazha